Forums - [Samurai Shodown 2] MCTek teachs SPD cancel Show all 17 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- [Samurai Shodown 2] MCTek teachs SPD cancel (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=15795) Posted by MCTek on 04:30:2001 09:43 PM: I don't remember if I posted this before or not but I'll post it again just to be sure. SPD cancel is a technique that pushes the two ninjas in SS2 up a few tiers (not that Galford isn't up there already). The concept is simple, use strike heads (dp+K) to cancel any move that can normally be canceled. Example : normally Galford and Hanzo's crouching fierce would have huge recovery time if wiffed. However, since crouching fierce is a cancel-able move one can cancel it with dp+k. What you'll see on the screen is 0.1 second of the crouching fierce animation and the ninjas suddenly standing up again. Using it to combo : since using SPD cancel effective means you have no recovery time on any move, you can basiclly start chaining moves together. Try close standing A+B for the ninjas' fierce overhead slash. Cancel it with SPD. You can do either a strong slash or crouching forward afterwards. On some character it's possible to do another fierce. I've been trying to get the timing down for an infinite...that's a work in progress. Posted by Ryu1999 on 04:30:2001 11:17 PM: i wish i knew a lot about ss2. but what you said definitely opens my eyes to a lot of strategies in samshow2. what you mentioned is sorta like FDC in GGx...btw, what are the tiers in SS2. i know that ukyo is in tier 1...but i dind't know galford was in top tier...i mean he's my staple character for the samurai showdown series, but i always thought of him as average Posted by shockwave on 05:01:2001 01:49 AM: it's been awhile since i played ss2, but galford was quite good imo...his dog combos and dog trap attacks and glitches were very good and hard to block at times (at least my opponents seem to have problems)..as far as tiers, not really sure, but ss2 was good in that every char had a fighting chance it seems, and no1 was ever really out of the game---comebacks were indeed possible (although ukyo was the best, hands down--especially with his apple fake setups and the ability to do his projectile from the ground with no lag/risk) mc tek, where do you play btw? Posted by Strike on 05:01:2001 04:08 AM: I love SS2. I think the ranks go something like this: 1. Ukyo - Unpunishable Sliding Attack that combos off standing AB - Jumping in then AB/Air-Fireball mix up - Air Fireballs in general - Long range - No bad match ups 2. Charlotte - AB slashes: standing, crouching, jumping = PRIORITY AND RANGE...beats 90% of all attacks - Crouching and standing A poke - Standing C kick, beats out what standing AB doesn't - POW move... great anti-air and instant start up - Best throw range/priority - Only has Ukyo as a bad match up 3. Gen-An - Nearly unpunishable Rolling attack - Crouching AB - FAST pokes... especially those involving slides - One of the fastest walking speeds 4. Cham Cham - Jumping scratch: nearly unpunishable, instant mistake punisher (if they wiff a slash, you'll get them), big damage, cross up and anti-air properties - Great throw range, most damaging in the game I think - Boomerangs go through all energy projectiles and stops animals - POW hits any opponent who flinches or jumps back The rest are middle tier somewhere. Nakoruru ranked last, along with Haohmaru, Galford, and Nictotine. Posted by MCTek on 05:01:2001 04:09 AM: I don't play anywhere regularly. Sometimes I play at UCLA arcade though. I also play at Western (now called Super) Arcade in front of Mt. SAC. Galford and Ukyo I rank near the top because of their aggressive options. They can chip away damage safely. There are lots of things already written about SS2 at gamefaqs.com, but for me at least I still discover new things now and then about the game. Ukyo, like Nakoruru in CvS, is out of place. The only way I can describe Ukyo's playing style is "wanton". Galford is almost the same way in that plasma blade is just a real good fireball. Haomaru I'd put top tier too, simply because of his ryu-ish fighting style (quite balanced). Gen-an is top tier because of his slides and nothing else. Nakoruru in SS2 I'd put low low tier. Hanzo even with SPD cancel is a very hard character to do damage with. I think when someone really learns how to use SPD cancel and his invisibility comes along, Hanzo would be fun. Until then he really isn't that great. As far as I know there's no "hopeless" match-ups in SS2. When rolls are used correctly, any character should be able to get in any other character's face. Unless you're Kuroko : ) Posted by Yumi Saotome on 05:01:2001 06:00 AM: Cham cham can be punished if her jump scratch is blocked (i.e, Charlotte) IMO, this game isn't about projectiles or special moves, it's about pokes. That's why Ukyo and Charlotte are the best characters in the game. Ukyo beats out all because his projectile is unpunishable, his super is bullshit, and his pokes out prioritize charlotte's. But personally, I'm a Charlotte fan. I remember pissing a lot of people off at UCLA with her ^_^. I wonder if my 11 game win streak is still up there? Charlotte is such bullshit. Posted by Strike on 05:01:2001 07:32 AM: Sorry, I meant Hanzo as bottom tier, not Galford. Although I don't really see much Galford can do to justify him to be top tier. Charlotte's standing AB takes him out of the air all the time; her jumping AB beats him in the air; and she has better pokes and range them him. I really don't think Haohmaru is top tier material at all. He gets outpoked (badly) by a lot of characters. Charlotte's standing B alone stops almost all his slashes and her standing AB cleanly hits all his jump ins. Ryu-type tactics will not help him at all. His fireball (like most everyone's in the game) has a HUGE start up delay and recovery time. His Uppercut is good, but with characters like Charlotte and Gen-An who don't need to jump at him, he's disadvanged. His slashes are slow as well. Cham Cham's Jumping Scratch has VERY minimal recovery time. I'm a Charlotte player and I don't see how Charlotte could counter a blocked C version Jumping Scratch done at maximum distance. Possibly dash in low A, but that's about it; Charlotte's AB slashes and B slashes are too slow and short to catch Cham Cham in time. Cham Cham will almost always bounce back to safety. A blocked CD Scratch is different; EVERYONE can punish that one if blocked. The only character I see really screwing her over is Ukyo with his instant Air Fireballs and Slide Slashes. Posted by MCTek on 05:01:2001 06:26 PM: I said Haomaru is like ryu because he is a very balanced character, not because you can do fireball-uppercut with him. Haomaru has some of the best kicks in the game, why are you only talking about slashes? Galford is top tier because of his offensive option anywhere on the map. Plasma blade for mid to close range and a variety of poppy attacks from far away. As for countering a blocked jumping scratch done from maximum distance, you can simply do a fireball do chip damage back. Or dash backwards or forwards and have cham cham land on the ground. As for Charlotte, I seriously think the character is over-rated. What are her chipping options? Poking might be well and good but there isn't exactly a guard crush gauge in SS2. If someone blocks the entire round what is Charlotte going to do to pressure the enemy to make a mistake? Her rapier dash attack is too telegraphed, and you can easily hit her out of her fireball. Posted by Strike on 05:01:2001 06:55 PM: Sorry, I still don't see how Haohmaru being balanced would rate him high. Lots of people are balanced in the game offensively and defensively. Kicks are good and all, but damage comes from slashes. And kicks in general don't have the range that slashes do, so you'd get outpoked. Poppy attacks are seen coming while he poses and orders. Galford's got Plasma Blade games, but what else? It's hard to chip Cham Cham back with a fireball after a blocked max distance Jumping Scratch. She recovers faster than the start up delay of most fireballs save for Ukyo's and another Jumping Scratch will sail over the projectile and hit you. Jumping Scratch has a wide hit range. You don't always want to hit from max distance. They're often timed so that if you do roll, the Jumping Scratch will cross up. Why need to chip with Charlotte when you can disrupt their attacks with her pokes? It's not like she has no chipping options either. Version A Splash Fount is relatively safe, and if they're gonna block all her slashes, they're not doing any damage back to her, so she wins anyway. She's overrated for a reason; she's good. Posted by Spider-Dan on 05:01:2001 08:49 PM: Poppy is really good... AB rush is the fastest projectile in the game, C rush is completely safe except in very initial (like, < 3) frames (if they hit you, dog still attacks, assist-style). No recovery on C dog at all. D is perfect anti-air and helps in Ukyo matchup, and pretty safe at medium range. (Obviously, if they guess a D rush, they can punish you brutally, but simple statistics point that I likely could be doing A, B, AB, or C, all of which they would eat if they guessed wrong. Given that C is completely safe at that range anyway, I'll take my chances.) Mixing B, C, D rushes (A at slightly closer ranges) is generally very good, and C is almost absolutely safe at any range but point blank. Even during SS2's heyday I never really saw any other Galford players take advantage of C rush as much as I do; it's very powerful. I use rushes with Galford a LOT in general. (note: MCTek, I don't see any point in plasma blade except A at fullscreen, follow in) Everyone knows you can't jump at people in SS1/2 general, so Charlotte (or whoever) having great air defense is not heavily relevant. Generally, if you jump at someone (that isn't already committed to something else), you get hit, regardless of matchup. Charlotte dies horribly to turtles. Posted by Middlekick on 05:01:2001 09:26 PM: How does Sieger rank in this? There was big tourney for this game about 6 or 7 years ago were he *completed* dominated. His strat was simply stay back,if they fb, reflect, if they make a mistake multi-part combo. When they get close,qcf+p+p rapidly...this did huge chip damage, was safe if blocked(it pushed you out) and it also had loads of range. He had a 62 win streak. There was even a snk rep from japan, who attended and lost(he picked hanzo, turned invisble, but couldn't handle this guy's Sieger) Opinions? Posted by MCTek on 05:02:2001 05:29 AM: thanks for backing me up Spiderdan. As for Galford's plasma blade that's just how I prefer to put pressure on the opponent....even though I admit his poppy options are FAR more versatile. And yes...it's dumb to jump in SS. Sieger is the #1 chipping character in the game, IMO. However, I don't see the possibility of anyone letting him pulling off his combo special. The problem I have with him is that besides Vulcan explosion he has almost NOTHING. His bodysplash is a more effective jump-in than most, but the danger in jumping makes it not even worth trying. Kinda boils down to a mind game trying to guess if Sieger is going to do a vulcan explosion or is he going to jump. Not exactly effective, considering how bad the lag is for vulcan explosion. The person that played Sieger well is good at reactionary fighting, but I wouldn't say Sieger himself pulled a lot of weight in the victories. I wonder what kind of projectiles this Sieger was reflecting. If he was fast enough to reflect Genjuro's projectile (i'm not even sure you can) then he must be pretty damn fast. Most other projectiles in SS2 are kinda crap. Posted by Middlekick on 05:02:2001 02:22 PM: Noone was able to hit Sieger after his explosion(they got pushed so far back), I think a Gen-an player did once with his roll, but this was 6 years ago(I'm a bit hazy) He also seemed to rely on his A button a lot. The reflect is really fast, you can reflect and still hit (some chars ) whilst they're still recovering from their fb from nearly full screen. Posted by MCTek on 05:02:2001 05:35 PM: I wouldn't know about the reflect....but I do know that it is kinda silly to throw a fb at full screen in most cases. Posted by mrselfdestruct on 05:02:2001 05:51 PM: Ukyo can easily punish sieger after the explosion. Sliding slash attacks. If sieger only does the first couple hits, not going into the full explosion then he is safe (i think, it has been a while) but he doesnt do the big chip damage. Sieger has always matched up well against many ppl. His reflection is an instantanous move and its easy to reflect almost all projectiles. Posted by shockwave on 05:03:2001 08:47 PM: the only char that would have a decent chance vs. ukyo (at top level) would be another ukyo vs seiger: after the gun blast if blocked, shadowslice was guaranteed i believe, if the shadowslice was blocked, ukyo would be close enough to poke with a,a or throw...after the seiger body splash would be blocked, swallowswipe fireball was guaranteed (if done as d,df,f,uf motion)...just ukyo's standing b alone was a good poke and difficult to pass thru so it would be hard for any char to get close. vs. charlotte...she can't beat ukyo in a fireball matchup, and any jump attempt from any char could almost always be punished severely by d+fierce slash or standing fierce (depending on distance) all chars would lose to ukyo becuase of his superior fireball (especially when done b,b,hcf+slash)...in this manner, ukyo would dash back and instantly release a fireball with no consequences (and the fireball would go beneath the ground and up to the enemy while you would have enough time to block theirs)..not too mention in up close matchups with the apple fake (you can pretty much throw the apple when the enemy is down, as they get up..if you anticipate them to block hi, hit d+fierce slash..if they would duck..do the instant standing swallow swipe off the ground (d,df,f,uf motion) which will hit mid..or you can even run up and throw them not to mention his fierce shadowslice into standing fireball or fierce shadowslice into low fierce mixup..his super was good also (you could do the super and land a good distance in front of the enemy--then low fierce...or do the super again immediately after landing--but risky if blocked) a safe ukyo would be difficult to beat (but not impossible)..for example..if ukyo's swallowswipe would be blocked by genjuro(sword making contact)..genjuro could pretty much get the fierce slash that would dizzy..after that..d+fierce into standing fierce would pretty much be lights out for ukyo...in a cheap matchup...an ukyo player--if ahead on life by alot--could pretty much pull his doll transformation to waste time..you'd take block damage no doubt..but it would be impossible to get thrown...and you could counter the enemy with standing-otg fireball as far as galford, he had alot of good dog combos/glitches.....(i'll post something on him later i guess since this is long already) Posted by Middlekick on 05:03:2001 10:28 PM: *wishes he played ss2 at a high level* sounds cool. 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